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- Pridružio: 23 Maj 2014
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upitnik :: Pet para ne bih dao na publikovane “rezultate” zapadnih genetskih istraživanja, ne samo u tom, nego u svim slučajevima obradjenim i publikovanim na zapadu. Ti rezultati su sredstvo modeliranja javnosti, alat politickih projekcija a ne rezultat nepobitne naučne istine. Ne govorim samo za gigantsku laz u formi tabelarnog prikaza koga si ti postavio, nego u cjelini.
Smece.
+ ...EDIT: Ima tome, negdje sam procitao ili čuo, ne mogu da se sjetim, izjavu jednog eksperta upravo po gornjem tabelarnom prikazu. Rekao je da su stvarni rezultati upravo potvrdili vezu između Askenaza i turkijskih naroda a da je na njegovo zaprepaštenje objavljeno nešto sasvim suprotno od toga. Ili, da navodno postoje ogromne razlike međju nacionalnim zajednicama u BiH, a kada bi se otišlo u prošlost i jedni i drugi i treći pripadaju nekolicini zajednickih predaka, tako reci par desetaka porodica.
Drska, bezocna laz, sto bi rekao gdin Mamic.
Stvarno ne bih obracao paznju, niti sirio off, ali s obzirom koliko korisnika alu folija ovde ima, jednostavno moram da odgovorim.
No Evidence from Genome-Wide Data of a Khazar Origin for the Ashkenazi Jews
Doron M. Behar Mait Metspalu Yael Baran, Naama M. Kopelman Bayazit Yunusbayev Ariella Gladstein Shay Tzur Hovhannes Sahakyan Ardeshir Bahmanimehr Levon Yepiskoposyan Kristiina Tambets Elza K. Khusnutdinova Alena Kushniarevich Oleg Balanovsky Elena Balanovsky Lejla Kovacevic Damir Marjanovic Evelin Mihailov Anastasia Kouvatsi Costas Triantaphyllidis Roy J. King Ornella Semino Antonio Torroni Michael F. Hammer Ene Metspalu Karl Skorecki Saharon Rosset Eran Halperin Richard Villems and Noah A. Rosenberg
Citat:Employing a variety of standard techniques for the analysis of populationgenetic structure, we find that Ashkenazi Jews share the greatest genetic ancestry with other Jewish populations, and among non-Jewish populations, with groups from Europe and the Middle East. No particular similarity of Ashkenazi Jews with populations from the Caucasus is evident, particularly with the populations that most closely represent the Khazar region. Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region.
One recent study (Elhaik, 2013), making use of part of our data set (Behar and others,
2010), focused specifically on the Khazar hypothesis, arguing that it has strong genetic support.
This claim was built on a series of analyses similar to those performed in our original study that
initially reported the data. However, the reanalysis relied on the provocative assumption that the
Armenians and Georgians of the South Caucasus region could serve as appropriate proxies for
Khazar descendants (Elhaik, 2013). This assumption is problematic for a number of reasons.
First, because of the great variety of populations in the Caucasus region and the fact that no
specific population in the region is known to represent Khazar descendants, evidence for
ancestry among Caucasus populations need not reflect Khazar ancestry. Second, even if it were
allowed that Caucasus affinities could represent Khazar ancestry, the use of the Armenians and
Georgians as Khazar proxies is particularly poor, as they represent the southern part of the
Caucasus region, while the Khazar Khaganate was centered in the North Caucasus and further to north. Furthermore, among populations of the Caucasus, Armenians and Georgians are
geographically the closest to the Middle East, and are therefore expected a priori to show the
greatest genetic similarity to Middle Eastern populations. Indeed, a rather high similarity of
South Caucasus populations to Middle Eastern groups was observed at the level of the whole
genome in a recent study (Yunusbayev and others, 2012). Thus, any genetic similarity between
Ashkenazi Jews and Armenians and Georgians might merely reflect a common shared Middle
Eastern ancestry component, actually providing further support to a Middle Eastern origin of Ashkenazi Jews, rather than a hint for a Khazar origin.
In summary, in this most comprehensive study to date, we have examined the three
potential sources for contemporary Ashkenazi Jews, using a new sample set that covers the full
extent of the Khazar realm of the 6th to 10th centuries. Analysis of this large data set does not
change and in fact reinforces the conclusions of multiple past studies, including ours and those of
other groups (Atzmon and others, 2010; Bauchet and others, 2007; Behar and others, 2010;
Campbell and others, 2012; Guha and others, 2012; Haber and others, 2013; Henn and others,
2012; Kopelman and others, 2009; Seldin and others, 2006; Tian and others, 2008). We confirm
the notion that the Ashkenazi, North African, and Sephardi Jews share substantial genetic
ancestry and that they derive it from Middle Eastern and European populations, with no
indication of a detectable Khazar contribution to their genetic origins.
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0604
Da, svi ti naucnici su potkupljeni i sakrivaju veliku tajnu.
Ali da dodam, tu je i Anatolij Kljosov, koji je, kako on sam kaze, blago receno kritikovao Elhaika, jer jednostavno njegov pristup i pretpostavke ne stoje. Kljosov, koji i sam ima neke prilicno kontraverzne teorije sigurno se ne moze nazvati mejnstrim naucnikom. Dvoje Balanovskih koje mozete da vidite kao koautore rada gore ga zestoko napadaju.
Citat:Короче, автор показал, что европейские евреи имеют гаплогруппы J1 и J2
(хотя у автора это было значительно сложнее, по десяткам тысяч
мутаций в геноме) – значит, потомки хазар. По этой «логике» многие
грузины, армяне, а особенно этносы восточного Кавказа, имеющие
гаплогруппы J1 или J2, – потомки хазар. Хотя общие предки этих
кавказских родов жили 7 тысяч лет назад, что хазарам и не снилось.
Вскоре сам автор, Эран Элхайк, прочитал в прессе, что я его статью,
мягко говоря, покритиковал. Он написал мне письмо, и спросил, почему.
Я объяснил, и Эран спорить не стал. Вместо пустого оспаривания –
согласился, и предложил написать совместную статью, уже не про
евреев, а про эволюцию человека. Статья уже в печати. Сейчас пишем
еще одну, про денисовского человека и геном неандертальцев. Это –
хороший пример, как конструктивная дискуссия ведет к
конструктивному же продолжению работы.
Ukratko, Elhaik je pisao Kljosovu nakon njegove kritike, i ovaj mu je objasnio gde gresi. Sto je dovelo do toga da su saradjivali.
Proveri zalihe alu folije 
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