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Poslao: 24 Sep 2021 23:21
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- Toni
- SuperModerator
- Pridružio: 18 Jun 2008
- Poruke: 31145
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MB120mm ::Змај је одрадио своје.Чак још пре неколико година.*Модернизација* практично подразумева производњу новог,што се и ради.Нема ту ничег спорног.
MB120mm ::ТР-1 су истекли ресурси структуре змаја.
Nije, isto si pisao i za Rafale skoro. To su tvoje sta je babi milo fantazije, prosto izmisljotine i postedi nas istih nadalje.
Spanija najnormalnije dalje modernizuje T1 avione i ostace u upotrebi do 2040. tako da je i konkretan primer u praksi tu, ako je uopste i potreban za ovakve izjave. Sta ce koja drzava modernizovati ili ne je do racunice konkretne drzave, sta su zahtevi, koliko kosta modernizacija, da li je moguca do nivoa koji se zahteva ili ce praviti nove koji su u startu na mnogo visem standardu. Ali sigurno nisu jer je neko diletant pa ne zna da napravi avion ili laze koliko je resurs dok ih strucnjak kao ti ne provali.
Sto se tice T1 resurs je 6000 sati, britanski ce ako se povuku iz svake upotrebe do 2025. imati po proceni oko 2600 sati potrosenih u proseku.
Konkretno Tajfun je u pred proizvodnom procesu testiran na 18 000 test sati sto daje sigurnih 6 000 stvarnih sati leta koliko je prvobitno zahtevano. Svi delovi moraju biti testirani na x 3 zivotni vek aviona.
Citat:The required fatigue life of 6000 FH
has been proven with a scatter factor of 3.0. The resulting 18000 TH were simulated
according to a flight-by-flight test program consisted of 771 different load cases and 3
missions with 17 different flights.
Citat:
The required 18000 TH is simulated in 1000 TH blocks according to a flight-by-flight
test program consisting of 28 different flights regarding mission and aircraft
configuration. The flights are built up from over 700 different manoeuvres with an
average of 4 load cases per manoeuvre.
Citat:The majority of the CFC damages were small defects and classified as "Minor", which
effectively remained stable and safe, for the entire duration of the test. None of the
representative ones (manufacturing defects, impacts, handling damage, etc) needed
repair. For the metallic damages, the majority were fatigue (zabranjeno)s with the remainder
falling into the categories of migration, play, surface marking, fretting, etc. For the
production aircraft, all the relevant DMAFT damages were thoroughly analysed. Under
consideration of the advanced production aircraft requirements all critical locations
were re-designed to be (zabranjeno) free within 3 life times.
The overall number of damages on the test was very low considering the prototype
status of its maturity state. None of the damages have impaired the prototype flight test
programme and none led to major changes for the production aircraft re-design.
Zbog odredjenih razlika izmedju jednoseda i dvoseda nakon toga je primerak jednoseda testiran do 9000 stvarnih sati.
Citat:The SIFT flight-by-flight test program is based on the PMAFT test program but
considers the specific single seat front fuselage loads and load cases.
The test status of SIFT is currently about 9000 TH. The number of significant damages
is also very low.
Iz primera sta Spanci rade na svojim se moze videti deo opreme koji je drugaciji na T-2/T-3 u odnosu na T-1, odnosno koji T-1 nema.
Citat:“The replacement of Tranche 1 EURO-FIGHTERs is not an issue at the moment. Tranche 1 fleet has just started a modernisation programme, which includes hardware and software upgrades, taking care of obsolescence issues by integrating Tranche 2 hardware. Operational upgrades include new capabilities, like the possibility of carry litening targeting pods”, the official spokesperson of the Spanish Air Force, Lieutenant-Colonel Marcos Díez Estévez, told ESD.
Last February, Airbus delivered the first upgraded Tranche 1 EUROFIGHTER to the Spanish Air Force. The upgrade was carried out at the Airbus facilities in Getafe and involved the introduction of hardware modifications, which support the Operational Flight Programme 02 (OFP-02) developed by the Armament and Experimental Logistics Centre (CLAEX) in the Spanish Air Force.
The upgrade developed by Airbus includes modifications that integrate Tranche 2 and Tranche 3 equipment on the aircraft, such as a Computer Symbol Generator, Digital Video and Voice Recorder, Laser Designator Pod and Maintenance Data Panel.
https://euro-sd.com/2019/06/articles/13666/a-long-.....rofighter/
Dalje koliko znam gorivna instalacija je delom modifikovana jer kasnija transa dobija mogucnost nosenja CFT tankova, nova fiberopticka kablaza, povecana snaga kompjutera, veci bandwith za novije tipove oruzja...plus sva ostala poboljsanja, neka su hardverska, neka softverska, neka mogu biti dodata, neka ne, da ne navodimo sada sve.
Nije i da britanski nisu modernizovani, i oni su ubrzo nakon uvodjenja podignuti na Block 5 za pune V-V mogucnosti a zatim dobili mogucnost nosenja vodjenih bombi i korisceni su u Libiji.
Sto se konkretno britanskih tice Air International pisu da navodno zapravo postoji problem sa ljudstvom, odnosno pilotima i da je to razlog ponovnog pokusaja smanjenja flote kod njih.
Citat:It's hard to see how seven frontline squadrons will be sustained after the retirement of 24 Tranche 1 Typhoons, with just 67 Tranche 2 and 40 Tranche 3 aircraft. The Tranche 1 aircraft were saved from the scrapheap in the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review, which resurrected them for adversary training and quick reaction alert (QRA) duties – using them to provide extra mass, increasing force resilience and freeing up newer Typhoons for deployments and air-to-ground missions, and helping to maintain the throughput of trained crews. Their out-of-service date was extended to 2040 in line with the rest of the fleet.
While the Tranche 1 aircraft were effectively limited to the air defence role by their software, they do have an air-to-ground capability using Paveway II/Enhanced Paveway II, and a relatively cheap upgrade could have brought them to virtual Tranche 3 standards. The Spanish Tranche 1 upgrade shows what is possible – removing obsolescence issues, adding Storm Shadow and Meteor and opening the door to an AESA retrofit. In recent years, Tranche 1 Typhoons have been used on Operations Azotize and Biloxi, and have been used in the Falklands and on QRA.
The MOD isn’t admitting it, but AIR International understands the real reason for standing down the Tranche 1 Typhoons is all about manning – with the Typhoon force desperately short of pilots.
https://www.airinternational.com/article/savage-cuts-raf
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Poslao: 25 Sep 2021 06:50
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offline
- MB120mm
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 18 Feb 2013
- Poruke: 6176
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Toni ::MB120mm ::Змај је одрадио своје.Чак још пре неколико година.*Модернизација* практично подразумева производњу новог,што се и ради.Нема ту ничег спорног.
MB120mm ::ТР-1 су истекли ресурси структуре змаја.
Nije, isto si pisao i za Rafale skoro. To su tvoje sta je babi milo fantazije, prosto izmisljotine i postedi nas istih nadalje.
Spanija najnormalnije dalje modernizuje T1 avione i ostace u upotrebi do 2040. tako da je i konkretan primer u praksi tu, ako je uopste i potreban za ovakve izjave. Sta ce koja drzava modernizovati ili ne je do racunice konkretne drzave, sta su zahtevi, koliko kosta modernizacija, da li je moguca do nivoa koji se zahteva ili ce praviti nove koji su u startu na mnogo visem standardu. Ali sigurno nisu jer je neko diletant pa ne zna da napravi avion ili laze koliko je resurs dok ih strucnjak kao ti ne provali.
Sto se tice T1 resurs je 6000 sati, britanski ce ako se povuku iz svake upotrebe do 2025. imati po proceni oko 2600 sati potrosenih u proseku.
Konkretno Tajfun je u pred proizvodnom procesu testiran na 18 000 test sati sto daje sigurnih 6 000 stvarnih sati leta koliko je prvobitno zahtevano. Svi delovi moraju biti testirani na x 3 zivotni vek aviona.
Citat:The required fatigue life of 6000 FH
has been proven with a scatter factor of 3.0. The resulting 18000 TH were simulated
according to a flight-by-flight test program consisted of 771 different load cases and 3
missions with 17 different flights.
Citat:
The required 18000 TH is simulated in 1000 TH blocks according to a flight-by-flight
test program consisting of 28 different flights regarding mission and aircraft
configuration. The flights are built up from over 700 different manoeuvres with an
average of 4 load cases per manoeuvre.
Citat:The majority of the CFC damages were small defects and classified as "Minor", which
effectively remained stable and safe, for the entire duration of the test. None of the
representative ones (manufacturing defects, impacts, handling damage, etc) needed
repair. For the metallic damages, the majority were fatigue (zabranjeno)s with the remainder
falling into the categories of migration, play, surface marking, fretting, etc. For the
production aircraft, all the relevant DMAFT damages were thoroughly analysed. Under
consideration of the advanced production aircraft requirements all critical locations
were re-designed to be (zabranjeno) free within 3 life times.
The overall number of damages on the test was very low considering the prototype
status of its maturity state. None of the damages have impaired the prototype flight test
programme and none led to major changes for the production aircraft re-design.
Zbog odredjenih razlika izmedju jednoseda i dvoseda nakon toga je primerak jednoseda testiran do 9000 stvarnih sati.
Citat:The SIFT flight-by-flight test program is based on the PMAFT test program but
considers the specific single seat front fuselage loads and load cases.
The test status of SIFT is currently about 9000 TH. The number of significant damages
is also very low.
Iz primera sta Spanci rade na svojim se moze videti deo opreme koji je drugaciji na T-2/T-3 u odnosu na T-1, odnosno koji T-1 nema.
Citat:“The replacement of Tranche 1 EURO-FIGHTERs is not an issue at the moment. Tranche 1 fleet has just started a modernisation programme, which includes hardware and software upgrades, taking care of obsolescence issues by integrating Tranche 2 hardware. Operational upgrades include new capabilities, like the possibility of carry litening targeting pods”, the official spokesperson of the Spanish Air Force, Lieutenant-Colonel Marcos Díez Estévez, told ESD.
Last February, Airbus delivered the first upgraded Tranche 1 EUROFIGHTER to the Spanish Air Force. The upgrade was carried out at the Airbus facilities in Getafe and involved the introduction of hardware modifications, which support the Operational Flight Programme 02 (OFP-02) developed by the Armament and Experimental Logistics Centre (CLAEX) in the Spanish Air Force.
The upgrade developed by Airbus includes modifications that integrate Tranche 2 and Tranche 3 equipment on the aircraft, such as a Computer Symbol Generator, Digital Video and Voice Recorder, Laser Designator Pod and Maintenance Data Panel.
https://euro-sd.com/2019/06/articles/13666/a-long-.....rofighter/
Dalje koliko znam gorivna instalacija je delom modifikovana jer kasnija transa dobija mogucnost nosenja CFT tankova, nova fiberopticka kablaza, povecana snaga kompjutera, veci bandwith za novije tipove oruzja...plus sva ostala poboljsanja, neka su hardverska, neka softverska, neka mogu biti dodata, neka ne, da ne navodimo sada sve.
Nije i da britanski nisu modernizovani, i oni su ubrzo nakon uvodjenja podignuti na Block 5 za pune V-V mogucnosti a zatim dobili mogucnost nosenja vodjenih bombi i korisceni su u Libiji.
Sto se konkretno britanskih tice Air International pisu da navodno zapravo postoji problem sa ljudstvom, odnosno pilotima i da je to razlog ponovnog pokusaja smanjenja flote kod njih.
Citat:It's hard to see how seven frontline squadrons will be sustained after the retirement of 24 Tranche 1 Typhoons, with just 67 Tranche 2 and 40 Tranche 3 aircraft. The Tranche 1 aircraft were saved from the scrapheap in the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review, which resurrected them for adversary training and quick reaction alert (QRA) duties – using them to provide extra mass, increasing force resilience and freeing up newer Typhoons for deployments and air-to-ground missions, and helping to maintain the throughput of trained crews. Their out-of-service date was extended to 2040 in line with the rest of the fleet.
While the Tranche 1 aircraft were effectively limited to the air defence role by their software, they do have an air-to-ground capability using Paveway II/Enhanced Paveway II, and a relatively cheap upgrade could have brought them to virtual Tranche 3 standards. The Spanish Tranche 1 upgrade shows what is possible – removing obsolescence issues, adding Storm Shadow and Meteor and opening the door to an AESA retrofit. In recent years, Tranche 1 Typhoons have been used on Operations Azotize and Biloxi, and have been used in the Falklands and on QRA.
The MOD isn’t admitting it, but AIR International understands the real reason for standing down the Tranche 1 Typhoons is all about manning – with the Typhoon force desperately short of pilots.
https://www.airinternational.com/article/savage-cuts-raf
Једном сам ти о томе већ писао немам намеру поново.Шта Шпанци намеравају са СВОЈИМ авионима то је њихова ствар.Да исти тип структуре је и на Рафалу и Грипену,и имају слична понашања на одређеним температурама и при одређеним режимима лета.Апсолутно нема ту ничег што би мени било МИЛО.И наравно има бољих стрчњака од мене.Увек постоји бољи!
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Poslao: 25 Sep 2021 07:05
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offline
- zdrebac
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 13 Jan 2012
- Poruke: 2684
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koliko sam ja razumeo iz strane stampe, nemci i englezi imaju para pa mogu sebi priustiti da stare izbace iako im resurs jedva stigao do polovine a spanci nemaju love pa moraju da se hebavaju sa onim sto imaju.
kad imas para, ona neces neki krs da koristis niti da ga modernizujes ako to zahteva puno para i vremena
uzmes lepo novo i resis problem. + i proizvodne hale nece biti prazne niti ce radnici da odu drugde, pomazes i privredu, vrte se pare.
to je sve, nema se tu sta komplikovati.
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Poslao: 25 Sep 2021 10:26
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offline
- MB120mm
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 18 Feb 2013
- Poruke: 6176
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Да тако је ждребац.Да се разумемо,не важи то само за Западне авионе,већ за сваки са одређеним + % композита у структури трупа.Модуларне делове не рачунам то је лако измењиво/али ово опет само за отпорност на старење структуре не и за ограничења везано за природу структуре/.Да не испадне да ја сад пишем нешто напамет или први пут.
**Има негде на теми мислим да је ђокс* постовао ,везано за Фински тендер ког занима може да тражи
отприлике....***Грипен је показао одређена ограничења на одређеним температурама и приликом одређених маневара*
Пре неколико година можда и више од 5 написао сам исто на некој теми.
***За фанове Тајфуна питање.Шта мисле како се осећа структура Тајфуна кад на минус 50 степени ради маневре од 9 Г.
Ако се пажњиво упореди написано је потпуно исто.С тим што сам ја оквирно ставио неке опсеге везане за неке податке из теорије испитивања полимера.Тај опсег не мора изгледати баш тако,но то је већ небитно.
Даље кад се већ позива на часовни ресурс мора се имати у виду да се ту шпекулише са прописаним одржавањем авиона.Што значи редовно рађеним генералним ремонтима .Приликом генералног ремонта подразумева се замена свих делова структуре која након одређеног ВРЕМЕНСКОГ периодаресурса/ како год то неко зове почиње да губи својства.Дакле уколико неко реши да ради такав обим послова онда је могуће довести авион на ниво да се може даље користити по прописаном ресурсу.Колико то кошта то је већ нешто друго и излази из домена расправе.Овде сам се ограничио само на структуру без уласка у ГР,подсистема итд.То не знам нити сам помињао.
Напомена.Оно горе важи за потпуно нов ГрипенЕ,по питању половних ,било којих стање може само да се усложњава по питању ограничења,везано за структуру змаја.
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Poslao: 28 Sep 2021 09:47
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- djox
- djox
- Pridružio: 23 Nov 2010
- Poruke: 100796
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Britanski imao problem
RAF Typhoon declares emergency over Scotland
Citat:A Typhoon jet has declared an emergency over the north of Scotland after a technical problem.
An RAF spokesperson said that the aircraft from RAF Lossiemouth was “on a routine training sortie” and had a technical issue.
“As a precaution, the pilot returned to base where the aircraft landed safely,” the RAF spokesman said.
 https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/typhoon-jet-declares-emergency-over-scotland/
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