Poslao: 16 Apr 2010 17:30
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- Toni
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Leonardo ::Vermont Air Guard: F-35 noise study in progress
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Inace dajem im jos 2 godine pre nego sto izbace nove verzije F-15 i 18.
Cenis,a
Citat:As cost estimates for the Lockheed Martin F-35 continue rising, some US lawmakers are pushing military officials to increase spending on fourth-generation fighters as a back-up.
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Registruj se da bi učestvovao u diskusiji. Registrovanim korisnicima se NE prikazuju reklame unutar poruka.
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Poslao: 18 Apr 2010 04:35
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- Leonardo
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F-35 noise complaints unfounded
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Poslao: 18 Apr 2010 13:47
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- Leonardo
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Ekvivalentan - kada ovo cujem pitam se sta je pisac hteo reci. Rec je o manevarsim sposobnostima. Naravno, ekvivalentan lovcima koji su danas u upotrebi. Ma sta to znacilo.
Dopuna: 18 Apr 2010 13:47
Da uporedimo ono sto danas znamo sa onime sto su nam pre nekoliko godina govorili... operativan 2008, 38 miliona, ukupno 3000 do 6000...
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Poslao: 18 Apr 2010 14:17
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- acatomic
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@Leonardo
Vidi se da su ambiciono zastavili cilj, ali mi se čini da su sada nešto požurili, valjda se boje da če vojska kupiti manje njihovih a više Boeing-ovih F-18 i F-15 pa čak podržati i onaj njihov(Boeing) program 6.generacije aviona.
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Poslao: 18 Apr 2010 19:53
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- mean_machine
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Nisu oni krivi toliko. Zahtevi koje je vojska stavila pred njih su bili preambiciozni.
Inace uvek je zanimljivo slusati Dzona Beslija. Prvo je diplomirao fiziku pa otisao u USAF. Covek zna sta prica i nije navijac iako je glavni test pilot Lokida.
Dopuna: 18 Apr 2010 19:53
Sta Besli misli o RAND analizi F-35
Citat:But Rand authors John Stillion and Scott Purdue contended that the high wing loading of the F-35 makes it inherently less agile than current fighter aircraft, including Russia’s MiGs and Sukhois, and Europe’s Rafale and Typhoon. Moreover, the F-35’s thrust loading is significantly inferior to that of the F-15, F-16 and F-22, they said. As a result, Rand alleged, the F-35 is inferior in visual-range combat in terms of acceleration, climb and sustained-turn capability. It also has a lower top speed, they added.
Beesley called these comparisons naïve and simplistic. An empty F-35A will weigh 30,000 pounds and have a maximum thrust of 40,000 pounds, he noted. “Even when you add the 1,200 pounds of our air-to-air combat load and the 9,000 pounds half-fuel load with which you would typically begin an air-to-air engagement, then our power-to-weight ratio is still almost 1:1.” Moreover, he noted, the F-35’s half-fuel load is greater than today’s fighters. An F-16 would have only 3,600 pounds.
Beesley also insisted that the sustained turn rate of the F-35 is conquerable, despite its higher wing loading. He insisted that there is “a huge amount of thrust available” from the aircraft’s Pratt & Whitney F135 engine, which is the most powerful ever fitted to a combat aircraft.
The F-35 chief test pilot further noted that the F-35 can fly at angles of attack that are just as steep as those of the F-18 or the F-22. “It’s a fully maneuverable 50-degree airplane,” he said. He invited those who had witnessed the F-22’s startling agility at airshows recently to ponder the fact that “the same people also designed the flight control system for the F-35.”
Moreover, Beesley told AIN, the debate should not be limited to a discussion of visual-range dogfighting. “In a real combat mission, the ability to sneak up on your opponent and be the first to shoot is paramount,” he said.
Ovo je ono o cemu stalno pricam. F-35 nosi ogromnu kolicinu goriva a to se cesto zaboravlja. Kada dodje u zonu dejstva odredjeni % goriva je potrosen i tada je avion dosta okretniji. Inace ista prica i sa Su-27/30/35. Npr. Su-27 je okretan kao MiG-29 ali kada ima 60% goriva.
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Poslao: 18 Apr 2010 21:36
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- Leonardo
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F-35 je u klasi sa F/A-18E/F. Sto po Karlu nije dovoljno za blisku borbu protiv novih Su i MiG aviona. Ne znam da li ce biti dovoljno za napredne verzije J-10. Govorim o superiornosti kao opravadanju visoke cene.
F/A-18E/F - 30,600 lb (13,900 kg); Loaded weight: 47,000 lb (21,320 kg); Max takeoff weight: 66,000 lb
-Powerplant: 2× General Electric F414-GE-400 turbofans
* Dry thrust: 2x 14,000 lbf (62.3 kN) = 28,000 lbf
* Thrust with afterburner: 2x 22,000 lbf (97.9 kN) = 44,000 lbf
-Internal fuel capacity: F/A-18E: 14,400 lb (6,530 kg), F/A-18F: 13,550 lb (6,145 kg)
F-35A - 29,300 lb (13,300 kg); Loaded weight: 44,400 lb (20,100 kg); Max takeoff weight: 70,000 lb (31,800 kg)
- Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney F135 afterburning turbofan
* Dry thrust: 28,000 lbf (125 kN)
* Thrust with afterburner: 43,000 lbf (191 kN)
- Internal fuel: 18,480 lb (8,382 kg)
F- 35C prazan tezi 34,800 lb (15,800 kg), ima skoro 30% vece krilo i nesto veci dolet.
F-15E - 31,700 lb (14,300 kg); Max takeoff weight: 81,000 lb (36,700 kg)
- Powerplant: 2× Pratt & Whitney F100-229 afterburning turbofans
* Dry thrust: 2x 17,800 lbf (79.1 kN) = 35,600 lbf
* Thrust with afterburner: 2x 29,000 lbf (129 kN) = 58,000 lbf
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Poslao: 18 Apr 2010 23:35
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- mean_machine
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Karlo Kop ce uciniti sve da bi prikazao F-35 kao najgori avion koji je ikada napravljen. Covek hoce F-22 za Australiju a pri tome uopste ne zeli da razmotri koliko bi F-22 kostao Australiju. Npr. po Karlo Kopu dovoljno je da Australija ima pedest F-22. Za te pare Australija moze da dobije preko 100 F-35A. Ali to on nece da napise.
Ima jos jedan problem sa njegovim analizama. On skoro uvek u svojim analizama koristi AIM-120C5 ili C7. Uopste ne razmatra AIM-120D ali zato u razmatranje uvodi ruske rakete koje su do sada jedino vidjene na sajmovima.
Takodje ne razmatra mogucnost da F-35 nosi nekoliko AIM-120 na krilima. Npr. protiv Su-30MK (kineski i indonezijski) to ne bi bio uopste problem jer oni koriste vrlo zastareo radar pa bi gubitak stelta bio znatno manji nego npr. protiv Su-30MKI (koji sada dobija unapredjenje radara tj. 190km za cilj od 2m2).
Ali zato Karlo Kop voli da razmatra Su-35BM i neke unapredjene Su-30 na bazi Su-35 pa cak i PAK-FA. Sa druge strane uopste ne pominje najavu povecanja broja raketa smestenih u trup F-35. Novi lanser bi trebao da omoguci ukupno sest raketa.
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Poslao: 18 Apr 2010 23:57
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- Leonardo
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Mislim da potisak/masa vise nego dovoljno govori. Znamo sa kojim zahtevom su dizajnirani avioni 4.5 generacije. Poput recimo Tajfuna. Takvu agilnost i odnos potisak/masa bi trebalo da ima avion koji zeli da ispuni danasnje zahteve BVR borbe za koju je F-35 "predvidjen". To sto ce borba cesto voditi unutak 25km ne znaci da cela prica BVR borbe pada u blato i da nije potrebna superiorna agilnost.
Bilo bi tragicno da u nekoj borbi 8 na 8 recimo F-35 VS J-11, FC-1 ili J-10, nakon BVR i ulaska u blisku borbu, nastrada 3 ili 4 F-35.
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Sta moze biti taktika za F-35? Slicna onoj koju su razvijali Izraelci sa F-16 i 15 za MiG-23. Pri cemu je F-15 trebao da napadne cilj na vecim daljinama. Ovde bi se koristio mamac dok bi udarac dosao po bokovima gde je radarski odraz veci.
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