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- acatomic
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- Pridružio: 10 Jun 2008
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Setio sam se jednog clana na forum.keypublishing (sada key.aero) koji je imao dosta informacija o PAK-FA programu ali je prestao da piše pre prvog leta T-50. Njegov nick je RSM55. Pre 12 godina sam sakupio sve njegove postove i stavio jih ovde na na jednom mestu, pa sam se odlucio da to ponovim jer mislim da su i danas dosta zanimljivi.
Neke stvari, kao što je izgled aviona, sam ispustio jer sad znamo kako izgleda ali ako hocete procitati imate ovde -> [Link mogu videti samo ulogovani korisnici]
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19th May 2008, 15:27
Now, the status of the PAK FA programme is quite clear: they are REALLY working like hell to stay within schedule, they got all the funding they need, and my personal belief is that they will get the thing into the air in 2009 as stated. Possible delays will be linked with system integration progress, not with airframe and structural component unreadiness.
I kindly would like to point out that Russia's MoD doesn't accept any kind of "block I, II and maybe III" production clusters, and any fighter has to be fully operational before being accepted into service within the AF. Maybe that's why their GAO has little to say about the programme up to the present day.
As for the fighter itself, my source is adamant about the following points:
- no, it will be NOT inferior to the Raptor in terms of overall combat efficiency, which is not surprising since it's still end-of-20th-century tech vs. (basically) 80s-90s tech, and since no one changed the basic requirements since the programme was started;
- the biggest difference with the Raptor is that the PAK FA will have a genuine strike capability from the beginning on. Knowing the standard A-G Russian arsenal, it explains the very big internal bay.
- my original assertion about "all-sector sensor integration" has duly been misinterpreted by some net warriors as "360 deg. radar", which is of course nonsense. The RWR and passive scanning apparatus of the PAK FA will effectively be more potent than the Raptor's equivalents, and it will most certainly integrate new gen. optronic sensors. But no one is speaking about an even-layered spherical radar coverage. Active sensors in the back hemisphere are discussed, though.
- Supersonic cruise is a given.
- active ECMs are extremely potent (in the domestic version)
- there is no agreement as now regarding export customers. India will get (if anything) a very downgraded version. It will basically be the PAK FA airframe and a downgraded radar. The Indians have not been very helpful with the programme as a whole and the Russians not willing to show them the real specifications, as the programme was advanced anyway and the Indians wanted to change the specs with their own interests in mind. Further coop regarding upgrades is considered nevertheless.
- and no, it will not have any "plasma shielding" or anything of the kind. The front radome shielding got an totally different treatment.
- last but not least, they will test a new camo scheme.
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13th November 2008, 15:19
Come on, guys, get real.
If anything, this threat should be renamed "how would you speculate on bits of info that have nothing to do with the subject matter".
The bottom line of the article is that Pogosyan will lead the military division of the OAK.
It means he finally won.
He will remain head of Sukhoi Works, and "Skunk works"
He will get RSK MiG, and therefore will either put the focus on the mod. of the 29 and 31 series (which is official) or eventually "kill the *******s".
That's it. Period.
No one is planning a "lighter PAK FA" or anything like that.
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28th November 2008, 17:48
Guys, all of you are right
The Russian AF is indeed VERY interested to acquire the Su-35.
Not only as an interim fighter before the PAK-FA, but as a replacement for a part of its SU-27 regiments and certainly most of its MiG-29 numbers.
The Su-35 is still undergoing tests. No way the RuAF is going to formally order an aircraft that hasn't finished its test phase yet.
By contrast, the Su-34 has been accepted into service and a small batch has been ordered for combat eval, but there are still discussions in the AF about the real need for such an aircraft vs modernisation of the Su-24M to the M2 or GM levels and the "multirolisation" of the existing Su-25/27 fleet.
PAK FA will fly next year indeed. The procurement programme itself might be delayed, because of the reasons stated above. It'a a risk assessment after all. My guess is that the RuAF will opt for a batch of 100+ PAK FAs for the coming 12 years, with 150+ later. Not more.
The PAK FA will basically mirror the Raptor numbers and missions, as well as some Lighting missions, and will be deployed much more massively in the Far East and the Northern District than in the West/South, whereas the Su-35 will basically mirror the (big) niche of the Super Hornet and the F-15E.
The Su-35 has never been thought about as a pure air superiority fighter.
Its aim is to provide potent and effective airspace denial capability while carrying a big inventory of ordonance for AG operations if needed, and still being a capable fighter should danger come ahead.
It's basically a AG/anti-ship missile and bomb bus on steroids, with a very powerful radar. And a decent interceptor against most of the threats Russia will face in the coming 20 years. I know it's not the standard reading on this thread, and even on Russian threads - but that's what the RuAF wanted. They didn't want a "kinda Raptor without stealth".
Specialised interception missions will remain the privilege for upgraded Foxhounds. Specialised strike missions will be given to upgraded Frogfoots and (maybe) UCAVs resembling the Skat prototype - if the eggheads in the MoD finally understand the importance of such assets.
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19th April 2007, 17:43
One of the reasons why I... let's say "guess" it it that the PAK FA allegedly has a very large internal wepons bay (compared to other current and known designs) - that fact transpired recently so I'm not disclosing anything. Guess what kind of layout is more suited for that. The other thing is that its primary weapon will be a series of new "square-profile" SAs, i.e. it seems that the Russians are giving priority to speed and range when it comes to its weapon systems (meaning high volume ratios) and not when it comes to the vector itself (it is again known that the speed requirements for the aircraft were reduced from M 2.14 to M2.00). Again, that reduces the number of suited layouts (while providing more flexibility for the design nevertheless, due to the reduction in dash speed requirements).
The other thing about layouts and engine intakes it that Saturn's new AL is rumoured to be a kind of... let's say "Advent engine-like" design. People familiar with the concept (which typically features non-variable air intakes) will remember that it does not marry well with classic rectangular intake designs.
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13th August 2007, 14:28
PAK FA's tech specs and "documentation" has been officially transmitted to factory level earlier this week.
Design, materials, manufacturing etc is finalized.
Avionics are AFAIK around 80% finalized (AESA is at least functioning and as far as the last news I got go, functioning well).
"Glass-cockpit", MFDs, new IRST and man-machine interfaces are already manufactured, some of it could be shown at MAKS (i.e. what wasn't already displayed previously, for ex. at the Bourget and the Maritime show lately).
The big P here seems to be the engine - but it's obvious now that the pre-series (and probably the early series) will fly with the 117 with or without thrust-vectoring.
There are NO funding problems AFAIK - the programme still has top priority and will remain under very close and personal scrutiny from the gov. side in the future. Problems have less to do with lack of funds than with the amount of funds available - every contractor and sub-contractor wants to maximize its piece of cake. Hence the wailing and bitter tears.
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13th August 2007, 16:09
It's a bit weird to quote and amend oneself, but the latest piece of news is that the other important issue is the PAK FA OLS integration - thought to be based on the new OLS by NII PT. Could be connected with stealthiness issues, but got no confirmation (would be obvious, actually, considering the size of the device). The OLS is allegedly codenamed "Basilisc" (don't know if it's a production codename, a military designator - don't think so - or just a nickname of sorts - fits quite well IMHO for an optical seeker-tracker .
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13th August 2007, 23:31
Citat:a) What's the name of the AESA set planned for 5th Gen Russian Fighter?...is NIIP product?, did Epaulet-A test-bed have anything to do with it?, what TMR tech will use?, GaAs or GaN?. Any information?
The name is not known to me, neither is the product designator. It is thought to be designed by the Tikhomirov bureau indeed, with some backsourcing from the experience gained through the Zhuk-AE (FGA-29) Phazotron programme, but the array size will be different. No idea about the details. Allegedly, it is supposed to have all the modern fashionable gimmicks (TWS, passive lock, stealth tracking and lock, ECM mode etc.). Don't know whether it will feature gallium-nitride conductors, the institute for Applied Materials did some research on them for many a year in any case (starting with the ill-fated NO-14 project).
The Epaulet-A is mainly and purely a tech testbed for something that will indeed find an application in the future AESA, but it is not "just" AESA tech. The Russians did a very good job at making everybody believe it was an AESA test bed.
Citat:b) Is there any information about ESM/RWR products developed in Russia after the L-150 "Pastel" series?...this seems to be the last they ever developed for airborne solutions, not bad through, superheterodyne receivers, and some niceties, but that's a 1982 project. Aside of Avtomatika (TsKBA) who else do this kind of work?...I know ECM are researched by KNIRTI and TsNIRTI in airborne uses. This question applies to any RWR for any new russian fighter (Su-35, Su-34, etc)
That's a very good question - the ESM suite of the PAK FA is one big secret within an enigma...you know the rest. What I know is:
- ESM/RWR and some radar sensors will be distributed conformally on the whole airframe
- The new SPO is based on the Pastel indeed, but will be much more capable in terms of man-machine interface (bearing and distance indicators within full 3D environment)
- ECM suites in the Post-Soviet world are essentially a multiple-contractor product, the leading research institutes only provide overall coordination. AFAIK, the leading contractor is Avtomatika, but it most probably works in cooperation with several others.
On the other hand, things seem to be going quite well with electronic suites R&D and integration, especially since the decision to retain and modernise the MiG-31 fleet with new sensors and avionics - they seem to work like hell on that particular issue - with the announced aim that the Foxhound "benefits from all the electronic suites developped for the PAK FA". They even train young lieutenants to fly it now (and not first class pilots like in the past).
Citat:c) Any info on new datalink/NWC solutions?, last I have ever heard was "MSPD", you can read something about at: [Link mogu videti samo ulogovani korisnici]
But I don't get very good the specs, per example, what's the transmission rate?, can you comment on it?
Heard rumours about a new "top secret ultra-secure super-cool" laser beam datalink system, with tremendous bitrates, but nothing definite.
The MSPD simply means "Communication and Data Transmission Module" and is actually fairly old. Transmission rate is between 75 and 16000 baud, it has 2 effective MIL-STD channels, 14/4 entry/exit consecutive and 96/16 parallel channels. Its advantage is that it's (relatively) light (10 kg) and small, making installation easier on smaller types of aircraft or helos.
Something similar is being done for the PAK FA by the FGUP "TsKBA" at the moment.
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14th August 2007, 15:59
Citat:a) Wich area of radio-electronic industry did you think Russia is falling behind?
Falling behind: High versatility comms, broadband (but that's about to change), downsized satnav assets, digital signal processing (but NOT on the algorithm level!), network-centric PM, digilinks.
Catching up: mutli-sensor busses, EW systems (qualitatively - because before, they compensated with sheer output power), radar tech.
Still unsurpassed: laser tech, optical sensors, encryption, command and control algorithms and software integration.
Citat:b) What is all about the different Vympel products?, Izd 170-1, Izd-180, Izd-760, Izd-300?, they were reported one year back at a conference backed by GosNIIAS, and K-77-1 (Izd 170-1) was announced to be in "state tests"...how did those missiles (170-1 and 180) really fare with the earlier known R&D made on K-77M and ramjet-powered R-77?...what happened to supposed IR-Adder and Anti-radar-Adder?
Its still classified tech, so no one would comment on it freely... The Adder derivates are supposedly cancelled, but they have been "accepted into service", i.e. they completed factory and state trials. AFAIK the 170 is still being evaluated as the main long-range armament for the AF, along with another entirely different programme for the PAK FA (modular high velocity missile to replace the R-77) and the programme aiming at modernising the armament of the MiG-31.
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Posljedni post:
My final words in this thread
Dear all,
since the beginning of this Saga, I have tried to post only reliable, unbiased and truthful information about the programme of the "5th gen. fighter", PAK FA, T-50, whatever it might be called and is called by the "community" and the gullible media and "experts". Obviously, because of the aforementioned ethical prerequisites, I haven't posted that much.
For the time being, I am relatively proud to say that none of my "supputations", suppositions and information that I have provided has proven untrue. Indeed, it seems that Zelin himself confirms (for example) the all-aspect sensor fusion I have talked about more than a year ago.
I have also written here that the "PAK FA" or whatever will be "more like the YF-23 than the F-22". I have also stated that those who expect some kind of flying sauski or Firefox will be disappointed, as the RuAF requirements for the PAK FA differ from USAF requirements for the Raptor. I have also pointed out that the main breakthrough, and the main challenge, of the PAK FA programme will not be new aerodynamics, amazing stealth or incredible overall characteristics, but simply total sensor fusion and the implementation of brand new weapon systems and a very potent sensor/RWR/ECM suite.
Why do I point that out again?
Because this post is going to be my last post on this thread until the subject matter will publicly fly.
Why that?
I am sick and tired of reading speculations and trying to temperate them.
I am sick and tired of seeing artists renderings, some good, some less, being naively discussed as if the honorable person who devised them on his or her PC between 2am and a bottle of Moskovskaya (or Château Rotschild 1956 for that matter, I don't care) had the Sukhoi blueprints next to the keyboard.
And on top of it, I am very, very tired of all the nationalist, pro-Russian, anti-Russian, pseudo-pro-anti-Russian redneck whatever ramblings that seem to enthuse the hon. members of this board much more than thinking about the next word they will use in order to describe their honorable feelings.
My last input:
Russian mass-media are not autocracy-driven, or democratic, or free, or unfree - they are just (for defense matter) mostly lame and incompetent.
Zelin has talked about 3 "5th gen. programmes".
He meant: PAK FA, PAK DA, future land-attack UCAV. No it's not the Skat.
He did not mention any "august 2009" deadline. The journalists made that up.
The said programme is doing well and progressing fast.
The airframes are all but ready.
Integration will be a big challenge, but I'm confident.
And again, "the first flight will not be the first"
Now.
If I wouldn't be so upset about what I read and if I would claim some recognition and respect, I would certainly humbly ask the moderators to close the thread till next summer at least because it's getting nowhere.
But as I'm certainly not - please go on and speculate further and further - the sky's the limit.
Till you see the real thing you all dream about, sometime next year, and then start an infinite number of threads like "PAK FA (it will be Su-.. ... by the time) vs F-22", "PAK FA is a hoax" or "PAK FA is not really stealthy (for flamers)".
All in all, God bless you all, let 2009 be better than the pundits say it will be and clear skies ahead.
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