Poslao: 07 Feb 2010 22:38
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Evo i nekih odgovora
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Registruj se da bi učestvovao u diskusiji. Registrovanim korisnicima se NE prikazuju reklame unutar poruka.
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Poslao: 07 Feb 2010 22:39
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Besotted :: Nivo stealth-a se nece nikada ni znati verovatno.
Да, то је чињеница. Свако ће тврдити нешто, а колико је то тачно тешко је утврдити, нарочито колико је мањи, или већи одраз у односу на конкурента.
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Poslao: 07 Feb 2010 22:40
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- sasans23
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Изгледа да је први прототип био спреман да полети још прошлог лета.
Чекало се на завршетак развоја мотора 117, који је прва тестирања имао тек 21. јанура ове године, на Су-35 710.
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Poslao: 07 Feb 2010 22:40
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- Besotted
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Taso ::mean_machine ::Prema ovome PAK-FA je pogodniji za supersonicne letove.
Naravno da je pogodniji. Optimiziran je za supersonicni let vise nego Raptor. Prema nekim (nezvanicnim) izvestajima, Raptor je 'kratkog daha' u supersonicnom rezimu.
Uporedite ugao napadnih ivica....kod Pak Fa su ostriji (pogodniji za supersonicni let)
a ima i drugih karakteristika koje su mnoge ovde (mislim neopravdano) kritikovali, na primer usisnici za vazduh i prostor izmedju njih.
Jedna nezvanicna analiza....
The center of gravity, which can be extrapolated from the landing gear location, is surprisingly forward. The redline represents the probable CG location. The green line represents the calculated mean aerodynamic chord, or MAC. Center of gravity is usually located along a percentage of this line; around 25-30% for stable civil aircraft and 40-50% for FBW aircraft.
Now, we know the CG can't go any backwards because the airplane will tip back and stay there on landing if that were so. So the Red line represents the furthest rear the CG can be. Since the location is in fact FORWARD of the MAC leading edge, this leads me to conclude that the clearly defined "wing" does not provide the large majority of the total lift.
In this way, the aerodynamics of the T-50 differ from the F-22. Based the F-22's landing gear, the Raptor's CG is more typical of a conventional design and the CG is at ~35-40% of the MAC. With the T-50, since the CG is so forward on the conventional wing, my hypothesis is that the areas that look like strakes and the area between the engines generate significant lift and should be treated more as part of the wing. Also, the layout seems to have more lifting body characteristics than the norm for both Western and Eastern fighters. Given the layout of the Su-27 family, with its widely spaced engines and generously large strakes, it does make sense that Sukhoi would continue in this direction, though.
Besotted ::Vidi se da su Ru si isli izgleda na frontalni stealth only i verovatno brzinu i domet jer sa strane nema govora o steathu i od pozadi takodje.
Sa strane ima bolji stealth nego Raptor
Ovaj lik gore izmislja toplu vodu. Sve sto je rekao je ocigledno da Sukhoi ima lifting body concept kao i F-14 kojem swing wings nisu bila dovoljna za onaj nivo uzgona i pokretljivosti i takve brzine. Morali su da se odluce za takav prilaz zbod 3 stvari, uzgona, goriva i raketa.
Sto se tice tvog stava da ima ne slican nivo nego i bolji stealth od Raptora ti to baziras na...?!
Pa jesi li obratio paznju kako se T-50 vide motori i da su klasicnog oblika? Sada pogledaj Raptor i od pozadi takodje ne samo sa strane.
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Poslao: 07 Feb 2010 22:43
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mean_machine ::
I pored ovakvog oblika (izlomljene ivice) izduvnik je stelt samo za radio talase cija je frekvencija iznad 7 GHz.
Иначе је немогуће направити стелт за читав спектар фреквенција.
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Poslao: 08 Feb 2010 00:02
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- Taso
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Ajde ljudi manje svadje vise analize....
Jedna gruba procena RCS uzimajuci u obzir oblik letelice.....posto sam pomenuli inzinjere, tip koji je ovo uradio jeste inzinjer
T-50 RCS
1. emphasis on front aspect: yes, since cos 90 degrees is negligible and there are no direct reflecting surfaces other than the edges which are a mix of X and L band optimized stealth.
side is L band optimized while rear is meh with an RCS of 17 m^2; although the rear aspect can be considered good since it has a very narrow lobe of +/- 7.5 degrees which is ideal emplacement for ECM in conjunction with evasive maneuvering.
In detail: the inlet/LERX actuation alignment is L band optimized at front aspect sin 12.5 degrees, wings are at 45 degree side lobe blind spot in the front aspect(30-60-90:+/-7.5 lobes).
so overall, front sigma max is 0.006m^2 at lambda 0.3m(L-band) and 0.6m^2 at lambda 0.03m(X-band).
At side aspect: the intake housing and vertical stab are canted at 15 degrees hence L band optimized. the round engine housing on the other hand may be reflective at some angles but not at level elevation since the tangent area is "blocked" by the wing structure ala F-35 though I'd expect better wing-body integration in the future.
2. lifting body: indeed. I believe there's a saying that empty structure is dead weight
note: may sound speculative but I would expect the RCS to be lower by at least a factor of 10 when RAM treatment is applied
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>> why not blend the area between intakes to hold more weapons and fuel for those thirsty engines like other 5th gen fighters?
-- because you then receive huge fuselage cross-section like F-22 that you will need to push through the air struggling with wave drag. placing weapon bays in central fuselage one behind other gives you sleek long 'skinny' airframe, kosher for supercruise - idea, used for YF-23 and ressurected in T-50
Preuzeto iz: http://www.vif2ne.ru/ (ne znam originalni izvor)
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Poslao: 08 Feb 2010 00:05
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- mean_machine
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@mareCar
Kuciste oko motora?
Isto izgleda kao na PAK-FA prototipu.
Dopuna: 08 Feb 2010 0:05
Nadam se da ce na tome da porade tj. da nece ostati na istome kao kod ranijih letelica (kojima stelt nije bio zahtev).
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Poslao: 08 Feb 2010 00:16
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- salesam
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Nemojte se ljutiti ali moram da pitam;
kakve veze ima koliko je T-50 stelth i koliko ce biti kad to nije bitno, zar ne? Jos pre pojave novog Sukhoja pricalo se da Ruski avioni mogu da otkriju i uhvate F-22 na razne nacine - posebno u slucaju kad treba da puca pa otvori vratanca od spremista za rakete - te da ovom taj stelth nista ne pomaze, pa mi sad nije jasno jel to od jednom stelth sad postao bitan?
Ma oni su T-50 izbacili cisto radi fore da bi izbacili nesto novo i revolucionarno kao sto smo svi i ocekivali, a poredjenje sa F-22 je glupo jer su im i do sadasnji avioni bili daleko bolji od njega. Manevarbilniji su, agilniji, okretniji, imaju bolje naoruzanje, a stelth i ovako nije ni bitan, dobro sad jeste radi PAK-FA ali ako on tu omane, opet nece biti, tako da su sve analize suvisne.
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Poslao: 08 Feb 2010 00:23
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- Leonardo
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Prave avion koji ce imati skoro iste sanse da prezivi u vazduhu. Stelt se moze uhvatiti samo je pitanje koliko napora i gubitaka to iziskuje. Ovako mogu da postignu 1 za 1. A onako ... ?
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