Kamov Ka-50/52

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

Jos neke zanimljivosti vezane za ovakvu konfoguraciju rotora .

Citat:The rotor blades are made from polymer materials. The coaxial-rotor configuration results in moments of inertia values relative to vertical and lateral axes between 1.5 to two times less than the values found in single-rotor helicopters with tail rotors. Absence of the tail rotor enables the helicopter to perform flat turns within the entire flight speed range. A maximum vertical g-load of 3.5 combined with low moments of inertia give the Ka-50 a high level of agility.

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

RAYBAN

Odakle ti izvor da je 30m/s, ajde postavi molim te na više sajtova piše da je oko 10m/s, na visini od oko 2500m. Brzina penjanja po ovom sajtu je manja od MI-28 i AH-64


http://www.airforceworld.com/heli/eng/ka50.htm
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/russias-ka-52-.....ers-05150/

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

^

Evo citav tekst u kojem se taj podatak navodi

Arbalet for Alligator
Maxim Pyadushkin

Citat:The government trials of Russia’s new attack helicopter – Kamov Ka-52, dubbed Alligator, will be finished in 2010, promised the Air Force Commander Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin in early August. In September the helicopter should start flight testing with its new onboard Arbalet radar station.

The twin seat Ka-52 was developed in the early 1990s on the basis of the single-seat Kamov Ka-50 Black Shark assault helicopter after it became clear that Russian Air Force want to have a new assault helicopter with two pilots, so Ka-50 is losing to Mil Mi-28N. The first Ka-52 prototype made its maiden flight in 1997.In 2003 the military selected Mi-28N as a main attack helicopter obviously because of its better armor protection. Although Ka-50 has armor equal to the Mil machine, Kamov designers had to sacrifice it developing Ka-52 in order keep the take-off weight at 10,000 kg mark. The Kamov designers admit that Ka-52’s pilots have protective armor only from the back of their seats.

But the Air Force found a special role for the Kamov helicopter. As the Air Force’s Chief of Armaments Maj. Gen. Oleg Barmin explained that Ka-52 is suited more for combat missions in urban terrain and in mountains as well as for air surveillance and target detection.Kamov designers stress that Ka-52 is not a simple two-seat modification of the Black Shark but a deeply modernized version. The helicopter is powered by a pair of new Klimov 2500 hp VK-2500 engines. Agility is achieved by the use of coaxial rotor design. It enables the helicopter to fly sideward with a speed of 80 km/h and backward at 90 km/h. Coaxial rotors also increase the vertical speed and the helicopter’s ceiling because, as one of Kamov designer explained, the lack of tail rotor allows to direct all power of the engines to the main rotors. During the flight tests Ka-52 demonstrated a vertical lift speed of 30 m/s.

The Alligator is armed with 30-mm 2A42 gun and 12 Vikhr (AT-12) laser-guided antitank missiles. The Kamov designers say the next step may be the introduction of new Hermes-A ATGMs with self homing device that has a range of 15-20 km compared to 10 km at Vikhr. But the military is likely to unify the weaponry with Mi-28N and to use radio-guided Ataka-V missiles. Ka-52 can also carry 4 Igla-V or 2 R-73 air-to-air missiles as well as 80-mm unguided rockets.

Ka-52 completed the first phase of the government testing at the end of 2008. At that time the military approved the production of pre-series batch of 12 helicopters at Arseniev-based Progress facility. According to Barmin, the exact number of helicopters to be purchased through 2020 is to not specified yet, but initial plans calls for more than 25 rotorcraft.

So far the main disappointment for the military was the lack of Arbalet radar station at Ka-52 prototypes. Now the problem is solved as the first radar was to be installed at the helicopter at the end of August. According to the Phazotron-NIIR Corporation, the designer of Arbalet, the delays was caused by the decision to relocate Ka-52’s GOES electro-optical sensor system in the nose cone what takes some space earlier assigned for Arbalet antenna. So the Phazotron specialists have to lift the antenna in the upper section of the nose cone and make its shape more elliptical, explained Phazotron chief designer Yury Gouskov. "Now the radar bean became wider and is capable to cover broader area”, he told.

The 8-mm wavelength Arbalet unified radar can detect and track moving tank-sized targets at up to 30km away. It can also detect airborne targets including planes, helicopters and missiles. The Arbalet will be integrated into a new Argument-2000 onboard navigation and flight and weapons control complex that enables the helicopter to operate round-o-clock in all weather condition. Ka-52’s communication system enables to exchange the information and distribute targets between other helicopters of the group on the battlefield turning the Alligator into a command aircraft.

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

^

Mislim da taj podatak od 10m/s ipak nije pouzdan ili se on odnosi opet na odredjenu fazu vertikalnog leta ? ( a s obzirom na mogucnosti koje pruzaju koaksijalni rotori ) i postoji ovaj podatak koji je u rangu sa tim koje si naveo za Apaca i 28-cu .

Citat:скороподъёмность 16 м/с

http://paralay.com/ka52/ka52.html

Tako da podatak 30m/s bi mogao biti za pocetnu brzinu kako smo i navodili .

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

Da ali ti sada uvodiš elemente možda, evo ovo je zvanična prezentacija ruskih helikoptera gde piše da je vertical climb 12m/s znači da je na rangu gore navedena dva helikoptera. Ja ne sporim da zbog snage motora i mogućnosti koaksijalnih rotora onima bolju početnu brzinu penjanja ali ali ne u tolikoj meri u odnosu na druga dva.

http://www.russianhelicopters.aero/en/helicopters/military/ka-52/features.html



Podaci o 12 dolaze direktno od Kamova tako da su zvanični i ja njih uzimam kao merodavnu. Ne možemo lutati ono što dolazi iz zvaničnih izvora toga se držimo u razgovoru.

Ne ne zvaničan podatak ima komparativnu prednost u odnosu na nezvanične. Kada se dođe do novih saznanja onda se taj novi podatak uzima kao zvanični. Ne možemo verovati ljudima na majke mi autor teksta kaže 30m/s i bez dokaza samo njegova reč, podatak može biti tačan, a može biti i inspirisan ličnim stavom. Eto zato se ne sme verovati šta neko kaže ako to ne dokaže eksperimentalnim putem. Nije ako ima 12 onda je na nivou Mi-28.

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

piloti koji su leteli na ka-50 u ceceniji su govorili da se crna ajkula penjala 30 m/s I da su bili prijatno iznenadjeni i to u borbenim uslovima . moram naci klip u kome se taj podatak spominj...

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

Maksimalna horizontalna brzina AH-64D longbow 273km/h na nivou mora, Mi-28 306-320 zavisi od izvora, Ka-52-310-350 km/h, e sada ovo o poniranju nisam našao, ovo su ne zvanični podaci pošto se na zvaničnim ne nevode parametri pri kojem su brzine merene, osim za apača pored kojeg je pisalo na nivou mora. E sada maksimalna brzina poniranja to nisam našao

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

^

Za Ka-50 postoji i podatak o 390km/h brzine u poniranju pored 350km/h u horizontalnom letu .

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

Evo jos nekih pojedinosti ,onako sa wiki

Citat:Other benefits

One other benefit arising from a coaxial design include increased payload for the same engine power — a tail rotor typically wastes some of the power that would otherwise be devoted to lift and thrust, whereas with a coaxial rotor design, all of the available engine power is devoted to lift and thrust. Reduced noise is a second advantage of the configuration — part of the loud 'slapping' noise associated with conventional helicopters arises from interaction between the airflows from the main and tail rotors, which in some designs can be severe. Also, helicopters using coaxial rotors tend to be more compact (occupying a smaller 'footprint' on the ground), though at the price of increased height, and consequently have uses in areas where space is at a premium — several Kamov designs are used in naval roles, being capable of operating from confined spaces on the decks of ships, including ships other than aircraft carriers (an example being the Kara Class cruisers of the Russian navy, which carry a Ka-25 'Hormone' helicopter as part of their standard fitment). Another benefit is increased safety on the ground; by eliminating the tail rotor, the major source of injuries and fatalities to ground crews and bystanders is eliminated.

Disadvantages

A principal disadvantage of the coaxial rotor design is the increased mechanical complexity of the rotor hub. The linkages and swashplates for two rotor systems need to be assembled atop the mast, which is more complex because of the need to drive two rotors in opposite directions. Because of the greater number of moving parts and complexity, the coaxial rotor system is more prone to mechanical faults and possible failure.[citation needed] Coaxial helicopters are also more prone to the "whipping" of blades and blade self-collision according to critics.

I jos nesto sto stize preko `bare`

Citat:The U.S. Department of Transportation has published a “Basic Helicopter Handbook”. One of the chapters in it is titled, “Some Hazards of Helicopter Flight'. Ten hazards have been listed to indicate what a typical single rotor helicopter has to deal with. The unique coaxial rotor design either reduces or completely eliminates these hazards. The following list indicates which:
Settling with power — Reduced
Retreating blade stall — Reduced
Medium frequency vibrations — Reduced
High frequency vibrations — None
Anti torque system failure in forward flight — Eliminated
Anti torque system failure while hovering — Eliminated
The reduction and elimination of these hazards are the strong points for the safety of coaxial rotor design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_rotors

• 0Niko još nije pohvalio poruku.
  Registruj se da bi pohvalio/la poruku!

Ja i ti se ne razumemo očigledno ja ne tvrdim da on nema vertikalnu brzinu penjanja od 30 m/s već tvrdim da i druga dva helikoptera imaju manju ali ne toliko manju brzinu. Veliki problem što podatak za druga dva helikoptera o brzini vertikalnog penjanja na malim visinama nema.