Pištolj Tokarev, njegovi derivati i metak 7,62x25mm Tokarev

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Не разумијем.
У питању је запремина устријелног канала или нешто друго?
Како запрмина ране не завици од дубине продора зрна?

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lažni đoko ::Не разумијем.
У питању је запремина устријелног канала или нешто друго?

Da.
Citat:
Како запрмина ране не завици од дубине продора зрна?

Ako oba metka "prosisaju" coveka onaj veceg kalibra ce imati vecu zapreminu ustrelnog kanala.

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I opet se sve svodi na uporedjivanju 7.62x25mm sa FMJ (jedina tada dostupna municinja) sa svim ostalim.
Pre izvesnog vremena je u casopisu Oruzje objavljen clanak o efektima 7.62x25mm sa drugim vrstama metka, ali na zalost taj clanak se ne pojavljuje nigde vise, a verujem da je razlika drasticna.

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За војну употребу је једино и дозвољено зрно са пуном кошуљицом. Код полиције ствари стоје другачије.
Кад смо код запремине устрелног канала, тачно је да је она већа код већег калибра, ако је дубина продора зрна иста. Али често није, јер 7,62мм има већу пробојност.
Већ сам написао да је грудни кош "оклопљен" ребрима. Тако да у реалним ситуацијама морамо имати у виду да зрно мора често проћи и кроз кост или више њих.

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Dosli smo do 32 acp,25 ,22 lr itd koji dokazano imaju malu zaustavnu moc iako su pogodci i sa tim kalibrima itekako smrtonosni jer probijaju tkivo.Da se vratimo na brzinu metka i zaustavnu moc.TT nema veliki promjer ali navodno ima vecu zaustavnu moc od navedenih zbog velike brzine,veca brzina metka=veci otpor tkiva i prenos energije.Na tom principu djeluju 22 kalibri modernih jurisnih pusaka,naravno tu se radi o jos puno vecim brzinama.
Citao sam da su neka nova istrazivanja pokazala da 7,62x25 ima vecu zaustavnu moc nego se mislilo,naravno ne znam jeli to istina pa me zanima jeli neko citao nesto slicno i ima li ikakve podatke o tome?

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Daj neki link. Gde su objavljena ta istrazivanja?
Rebro ne predstavlja znacajnu prepreku za pistoljska zrna jer je kost tanka. Jos nisam naisao na podatak da se neki metak zaustavio nakon pogotka u rebro. Mozda ce napr. zrna .22LR ili 6,35mm da izgube znacajan deo energije ali vec kod 7,65 to ne vazi jer ima dosta vecu masu cime je ocuvan inpuls(a i praksa to potvrdjuje). Pogodak u kost nanosi dosta stete telu jer pored povecanja promera zrna i brzeg transfera energije cesto dolazi do pojave tzv. "sekundarnih projektila" tj. delica kosti koji se ponasaju kao srapnel i dodatno razaraju tkivo. I tu su u prednosti projektili umerene brzine (oko brzine zvuka) koji razbijaju kost. Ako su brzi, jednostavno je probuse uz manje stete. Izuzetak su jedino ultra brzi i lagani projektili jurisnih pusaka koji su vec po konstrukciji zrna predvidjeni da fragmentiraju.

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Recce ::Daj neki link. Gde su objavljena ta istrazivanja?


E ,to i je problem,prije jedno pola godine citao na netu i sad ne mogu naći .

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Mali prilog o razlozima za odabir doticnog kalibra. Koliko tocno................???
Have you got time for a short story?

Citat:in 1920's Soviet Union the NKVD and the new "red" army had a hodgepodge of different pistols and calibers, from .30 nagants' to
.44 russian Smith & Wesson's
They where still figguring out this whole "Central Control Idea"
They liked the 1903 colt and the .30 mauser
so, they needed a pistol to work for everybody,
Police, NKVD, and the Officer Corp of the Red army
and it had to be something that could be simple enough to make indegeniously.
they came up with the T33 Tokerev
There where several "issues" that the T33 services very well.

1) Penatration.

The NKVD officers complained that .45 bullets did not allways penatrate the thick winter coats that everyone wore in the wintertime.
one thing the Soviets did exceptionally poorly, was make consumer goods. One of the most common that they had the most trouble with was Cloth.
Have you seen how big and complicated a cloth loom is? thats a big machine.
Therefor since cloth material was not as easily avalible, The soviets made their greatcoats out of Felt.
Wool Felt, an inch thick or more if the person is wearing a double layer, then 2inches
Felt is easy to make ya cart the wool pour it in to a tray with some cemicals, roll it out and viola!
Felt is also very dense.
The 7.62x25 was very effective at penatrating layers of felt.

2) Ease of manufacture.
The steelmills only had to make one barrel stock, (.30 cal)
same for pistols, rifles, machine guns,
3) wound charcteristics
The NKVD (later to become the KGB) had thousands and thousands of officers. they could cover the entire City, even in Moscow.
Their policy was to shoot anyone that ran from them.
They didnt want to kill outright every one they shot.
So think of it, you are a counter revolutionary running dog spy! and you get questioned by a NKVD state security officer. ya slug him and run
he fires and wounds you.
you get away.
With a gun shot wound in Russia where are you going to go where they wont find you?
a good body cavity shot with a 7.62x25 will eventually incapicate most humans. and can cause a slow agonizing death.
3 days later you go to the hospital, any hospital and there they are. waiting to question you.
thats exactly what they wanted to do in he first place, but now, they know you have some reason to run.
If they want to kill you the 7.62x25 is very effective when fired directly into the brain.
(After questioning)
4) Ease of training.
Most young men in the Soviet Union where simple folk from rural areas.
Likely as not the most complicated machine the conscripts had operated prior to training would have been a ox drawn plow.
something as complicated and mysterious as a pistol would be a great technoligical leap.
So, when shooting a moveing target(like a running dog counter revolutionary)it is not necessary to teach "leading the target"
The 7.62x25 is so fast at pistol ranges that it becomes very easy to hit a moveing target.
and at greater distances too.
The cartrige in inherently accuate.
These are just a few reasons why the Soviets Chose
The T33 and the Czech Cz 52 in the 7.62x25 caliber.

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Uglavnom veze nema sa zivotom.

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Rekao bih da je pisac ovog priloga neke stvari predpostavio (jer ih sigurno nije nasao u "tehnickim uslovima za prijem oruzja". Koliko su ovakvi zakljucci realni i "logicni" prilicno je upitno. Ocigledan je napor autora da bude duhovit....Ali svakako je zanimljivo sagledati stvari i iz ovog ugla
valent ::
3) wound charcteristics
The NKVD (later to become the KGB) had thousands and thousands of officers. they could cover the entire City, even in Moscow.
Their policy was to shoot anyone that ran from them.
They didnt want to kill outright every one they shot.
So think of it, you are a counter revolutionary running dog spy! and you get questioned by a NKVD state security officer. ya slug him and run
he fires and wounds you.
you get away.
With a gun shot wound in Russia where are you going to go where they wont find you?
a good body cavity shot with a 7.62x25 will eventually incapicate most humans. and can cause a slow agonizing death.
3 days later you go to the hospital, any hospital and there they are. waiting to question you.
thats exactly what they wanted to do in he first place, but now, they know you have some reason to run.
If they want to kill you the 7.62x25 is very effective when fired directly into the brain.
(After questioning)