Švajcarska vojska "prikriveni tigar, skriveni zmaj "

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Ima se sta od Svajcaraca nauciti,ne mora se bas sve primeniti(da ne pominjem da kosta preskupo,ali vredno paznje.)

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Ja sam stvarno zatečen jer na ovoj tematici do sada nisam ni privirio al sad vidim šta sam propustio za prvih godinu dana na forumu.
Šta reći za ovakve fortifikacijske objekte sem;Lepo ,Funkcionalno,Profesionalno i za naše pojmove izgradnje iz poslednjih dvadesetak godina Grandomanski.
Lepo jer sesve i uklapa u okolinu što bi u suprotnom i Alpima a i samim meštanima bila anti reklama ko bunkeri Albancima,
Funkcionalno pošto se sve tako odradilo da se ni kupole od starih rashodovanih tenkova nisu bacale već naprotiv sa malo inventivnosti dobijale svoj novi život.
Profesionalno jer kad su one prve dve stavke uradili za odličnu ocenu šta da im čovek drugo kaže i što lepo i Klif napisa kad je dobro urađeno smanjuju se troškovi održavanja.
Grandomanski samo sa našeg stanovišta jer se kod nas nema ali oni sami su vlasnici za razliku od drugih koji svoj suverenitet štite na razne načine pa i na ovakvoj demonstraciji sile.
Ja sam radeći u inžinjeriji imao prilike da privirim i da neke od naših sistema slične namene renoviram pa sam sve gore napisao isključivo iz tog ugla.
Kod nas se do kraja sedamdesetih mnogo više radilo na uređenju teritorije a kasnije samo na uvezivanju starih sistema i sa dogradnjom nekih od među objekata kojima su se oni već izgrađeni ojačavali u jedinstvenu celinu.
Najviše sličnih objekata je kod nas građeno na priobalju i ostrvima a samo izuzetno za potrebe naših statičnih komandi na najvišim nivoima sad već svima poznati objekti poput Karaša,Konjica,Han Pjeska i još par sličnih ,namenjenih uglavnom za komandne zadatke u ratu.

Švajcarcima svaka čast a nama ono što ostane od časti...

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Napisano: 11 Okt 2013 20:25

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Jos mi `pojma nemamo` sta sve oni imaju i sta su imali .Ne kazu dzaba tamo zemlja nam je probusena ko nas sir !

Pazimo samo ovo

Citat:Fees from homes with no shelter funded public shelters. The largest was the dual-use Sonnenberg Tunnel, which consisted of two 5100 foot road tunnels connected by a seven story command bunker. Four 350 ton doors were designed to seal in 20,000 people and withstand a 1 megaton explosion half a mile away. Its big test, a five-day trial run known as Operation Ant, revealed many problems. Capacity was based on 1 square meter per person, and it took 14 hours to close the doors, six hours longer than expected. [4] Piping in soothing music, from classical to rock (but not, of course, hard rock) can only do so much, and capacity was revised downward.

With the end of the Cold War, the Army’s chief of staff saw that it was no longer conceivable for the army to withdraw into the mountains and leave the people in the valleys. Many military bunkers were decommissioned, and some were sold. The Swiss Army leases two as ultra-secure, nuclear and EMP-proof data centers. A digital genome time capsule is stored there, and includes a Rosetta stone for pdf, jpeg, java, html, and mov files, stored on almost every computer format from floppy disks to blu-ray. Another was turned into a zero-star hotel, which went bankrupt and was re-sold for €1000 after a €100,000 bidder had no cash or checkbook.

http://atomictoasters.com/2012/11/the-labyrinthine.....s-bunkers/

Kliknuti na strelicu pored slike

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kecko/5054138682/in/photostream/




http://atomictoasters.com/2011/01/hidden-swiss-defences/

Dopuna: 11 Okt 2013 20:47

Tour of a Swiss military bunker

http://www.ziwa.com/new/reports300.html

Inside Switzerland's Secret Forts

http://rense.com/general26/inside.htm

Pogledajmo ovaj snimak obavezno

Switzerland Bunkers -- Where Preparedness is a Matter of Policy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0gpYYpZpzU

Ima i ova kolekcija

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8D420BF89A09A446

Dopuna: 11 Okt 2013 20:56

A ovo je onako kao `slag na tortu` u vezi bunkera

Fortress Switzerland

Citat:Bomb Shelters

In addition to all that, Switzerland is the only country in the world that has bomb shelters enough for their entire population (actually, they have more spaces than people, with 114% coverage).While there are huge communal shelters that can hold thousands, many businesses and residents have their own shelters. These are not simply small concrete block bunkers, but real, airtight fallout shelters with thick armored doors and ventilation systems. Building a private shelter costs about $10,000. Those who choose not to build their own shelters must pay about $1,500 for each place in a communal shelter. As of 2006, there were 300,000 shelters in residences and institutions and more than 5,000 public shelters-- enough for 8.6 million people; Switzerland's population is just under 8 million.

http://unnamedharald.hubpages.com/hub/Fortress-Switzerland

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ray ban11
Svaka čast za ovoliko materijala i sad sam još pod utiskom njihovih šupljina po Alpima kao da su sve izbušili a tako mala i hebitačna zemlja a još i Neutralna .
Neutralna ko iz onog vica da tuđe neće a svoje nikome da neda....
Ovako opremljena Neda sigurno nikome ništa od teritorije tek tako....

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Nema na cemu kolega .Drago mi je da vam se dopada ovaj kao i ostali materijali drugih kolega .

A evo kako je sve pocelo ...Bilo jednom davno ...

National Redoubt (Switzerland)

Citat:The Swiss National Redoubt (Schweizer Reduit or Réduit suisse) was a defensive plan developed by the Swiss government beginning in the 1880s to respond to foreign invasion. In the opening years of World War II the plan was expanded and refined to deal with a potential German invasion. The German plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was real, but was never carried out. The National Redoubt primarily refers to the fortifications begun in the 1880s that secured the mountainous central part of Switzerland, providing a defended refuge for a retreating Swiss army.




Citat:The National Redoubt encompassed a widely distributed set of fortifications on a general east-west line through the Alps, centering on three major fortress complexes, Fortresses St. Maurice, St. Gotthard and Sargans. These fortresses primarily defended the alpine crossings between Germany and Italy and excluded the industrialized and populated heart of Switzerland. The Swiss heartlands were defended by the Border Line, an advanced line of defenses near the borders, and the Army Position somewhat farther back. While not intended as an impassable barrier, these lines contained some significant fortifications. The National Redoubt, however, was planned as a nearly impregnable complex of fortifications that would deny an aggressor passage over or through the Alps by controlling the major passes and the railroad tunnels running north-to-south through the region. This strategy was intended to deter an invasion altogether by denying Switzerland's crucial transportation infrastructure to an aggressor.
By the 21st century, the National Redoubt was the subject of debate in Swiss society, with many fortifications decommissioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Redoubt_(Switzerland)

Jos jedna foto kolekcija bunkera

http://www.polarinertia.com/july06/bunker01.htm

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Hebitačni su al im je kažu sistem odbrane kod žena slab a posebno vikendom kad im popuste kočnice ...
Tad ih treba shebati ili skembati ,,,mislim njiha...

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Napisano: 11 Okt 2013 21:20

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Ta vam je dobra .

Evo nesto interesantno po pitanju bunkera

Gold Investors Seek Alpine Haven in Swiss Army Bunkers

Citat:Gold’s assumed safe haven qualities are not new as governments once used holdings of the metal to back currencies. In 1933, the U.S. forced private owners to sell gold to the Federal Reserve, with the treasury building a depository at Fort Knox. U.S. President Richard Nixon severed the dollar’s peg to gold in 1971. Switzerland was one of the last countries to link its currency to gold until a public vote in 1999 ended it.
Today, decommissioned Swiss military bunkers are being converted into vaults to meet rising private demand, said Buchwalder. A former Swiss Air Force command and control center in Uri is now a vault owned by data storage company Deltalis. At Swissdatasafe, based in Amsteg, investors can store valuables and art in secure locations in the Swiss Alps.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-14/gold-inve.....nkers.html

Why bankers go bonkers for bunkers

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/archive/Why_bankers_go.....id=1289134

Dopuna: 11 Okt 2013 22:03

Jedna taze novost

Media demand army reforms following vote



Citat:Swiss newspapers have called on the army to shape up and modernise despite voters rejecting a call to end compulsory military service. The initiative was quashed by a majority of nearly three quarters of ‘no’ votes on Sunday.

Citat:For 24 Heures and the Tribune de Genève, the extent of the rejection of the initiative is a slap in the face for the Switzerland without an Army group, but the vote does highlight a legitimate issue: only every second Swiss male fulfills his military duties.For Geneva’s Le Temps, the vote result is a plebiscite for the militia system, not for the army. Switzerland without an Army underestimated people’s fear of instability and their need for security in an uncertain environment.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Media_deman.....d=36957332

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Napisano: 12 Okt 2013 2:06

dobri covek ::Kažeš "imali su". Zar više nisu u funkciji?

Švajcarska vojska pravi planove kapaciteta oružanih snaga (ovo sam dobro sročio). Od tridesetih do 1961, od 1961 do 1995, pa sadašnji ArmeeXXI. Po planu Armee XXI, kvantitet oružanih snaga je redukovan, a sa njim i broj fortafikacijskih utvrda. Iz mnogih su izvučena oruđa i pristupilo se njihovom plombiranju.
Što se tiče grandioznosti, vjerujem da imaju krupnijih podzemnih objekata ali ovi pešadijski, artiljerijski te osmatrački bunkeri i fortice ne moraju da budu nužno skupi. Vjerovatno je iskorištena konfiguracija terena i podzemlja, vjerovatno na cement za vojsku nije naplaćivan porez, vjerovatno im nije ni trebalo mnogo cementa ( , a za sam postupak radova vojska dođe kao besplatna radna snaga. Pri tome se maksimalno štedi poljoprivredno zemljište kojim je Švajcarska veoma siromašna. A primjetio sam da su mnogi objekti knapirani za izradu od strane običnih vojnika vjerovatno predvođeni nekom starijom "iskusnjarom" u tom poslu.
Pa i ovdje, ne tako davno, najveći trošak kod izgradnje kuće bio je za parket i pločice (neki taj malograđanski kič nisu ni stavljali), ostalo je domaćin sam sa rođacima završavao. Rusi su Magnitogorsk izgradili nogama miješajući beton.

Dopuna: 12 Okt 2013 3:16

Armee 61 - kolokvijalni izraz za proces modernizacije odnosno prelazak sa iskustava iz WWII na izazove Hladnog rata tokom šezdesetih. Koncept je korišten do 1. januara 1995 kada je uveden Armee 95.

I dalje su planirana jaka fortafikacijska utvrđenja u Alpima sa širenjem Reduta.
Ojačavanje graničnih brigada za usporavanje invazije neprijatelja te omogućavanje mobilizacije.
Formiranje tri snažna armijska mehanizovana korpusa za nanošenje udara po neprijatelju na centralnom platou.
Stvaranje jakih snaga planinske pešadije koje bi u sadejstvu sa tvrđavama i fortafikacijama pokrivale sve puteve i koridore kroz Alpe.

Rešenje je neka vrsta kompromisa između dvije različite strategije sprovedene istovremeno oko odbrane Centralne visoravni i Alpskog regiona. Više se nije računalo samo na klasičnu linijsku odbranu, već je Centralni plato bio predviđen za manevarsko dejstvo tri mehanizovana armijska korpusa dok je Alpski region pokrivan armijskim korpusom planinske pešadije + tvrđave.

MTS
625000 pripadnika vojske opremljenih Sturmgewehr 57 ili Pistole 49/75
7000 mitraljeza 51 (7,5 mm)
20000 RBR Raketenrohre 80
1300 protivoklopnih topova 57 (9 cm) i 58 (10,6 cm)
2700 vođenih protivoklopnih sistema BANTAM i DRAGON Panzerabwehrlenkwaffe BB77
3000 minobacača 33/72 (8,1 cm) i 74 (12 cm)
900 vučenih artiljerijskih oruđa Hb 42/46 L22 (Haubitze, 10,5 cm ) i Sch Kan 35 L42 (Kanone, 10,5 cm)
540 samohodnih haubica 66/74 L39 (M109, 15,5 cm)
840 tenkova Centurion, Panzer 61, Panzer 68 i Panzer 87 (Leo2)
1300 oklopnih transportera 63/73 (M113)
1900 PAA topova 54 (20 mm) i 63/75 (35 mm)
60 PVO raketnih sistema BL-80 RAPIER
stacionarni položaji za PVO raketne sisteme 64 BLOODHOUND

Avijacija

134 jurišnika Hunter Mark 58 (Hawker Hunter)
104 lovca Tiger II (Northrop F-5)
30 presretača Mirage III S (Dassault Mirage III)
18 izviđača Mirage III RS
96 helikoptera Alouette II i III
3 transportna helikoptera Super Puma
18 transportnih aviona Pilatus Turboporter
200 trenažnih aviona Beechcraft Bonanza, Pilatus P-3, Pilatus PC-7, Vampire, Mirage III BS, Dornier Do 27

Infrastruktura

2.000 stalno miniranih objekata
4.000 stalnih protivtenkovskih prepreka
80 kilometara podzemnih municionih kaponira
600 podzemnih skladišta sa zalihama za 650.000 ljudi
16.000 pripremljenih položaja i bunkera

Tokom šezdesetih, Švajcarci su prešli sa repetirke na automatsku pušku, pešadija je obučavana da sadejstvuje sa mehanizacijom i oklopom, pripreman je scenarij atomskog napada, a poseban segment obuke posvećen je djelovanju u urbanim sredinama.
Sledeća velika promjena desiće se 1970 kada je grupa arapskih terorista otela Sviserov putnički avion, a pucala na avion El Ala u Klotenu. Na zahtjev kantona Cirih i Ženeva, Vojska je formirala jedan bataljon stalno na raspolaganju lokalnim policijskim snagama.
Režim obuke morao je da se mijenja i 1973 kada je Švajcarska smanjila raspodijelu goriva i za 30%.

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Ni u jednom ratu utvrđene linije i bunkerijada nije imala gotovo nikakvog učinka.

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Ali nijedan se rat nije vodio u Švajcarskoj, tako da i to nije neko merilo. U planinama, dobro ukopano odelenje vredi više nego pešadijska četa na drugom prostoru. O PO orudju da se i ne govori.